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Published Sep 20, 21
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I want to provide you all a break for a minute as well as turn to Mr. Swartz. Normally, we would have had 2 panels, yet we really did not understand just how the Us senate would be running today, so in an effort to make certain we got via all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testimony as well as your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces financial institution secrecy and offers a system for us getting the details we require. There have been some mutual legal assistance treaties that include provisions relevant straight to sharing financial institution documents or various other monetary information.

Swartz. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. When it come to that particular concern, the board may be referring to the reasonably brand-new stipulation that appears, for example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, the identification of bank records arrangement. That was a stipulation that was prepared as well as adopted in the context of the E.U.

Under that stipulation, it's possible for the asking for party to look for details regarding whether an account exists in the asked for country, or in the situation of the E.U., among the requested participant states. But, thereafter, the request, if there is a recognition of an account, must be adhered to up via a basic shared lawful assistance treaty.

And when it come to Bermuda, our document of participation has been great. We think that the record we have on the production of records, consisting of bank documents, is such that we are positive that the provisions consisted of in this mutual legal assistance treaty, which do call for cooperation on the production of records, will certainly be adequate to make certain that we get the records we require for our economic examinations and various other investigations.

A few other MLATs additionally allow for urgent, non-written type requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it needs to be in written form. Any type of reason that that provision was not included in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Legal Assistance Treaty does call for requests in written kind, it was the judgment of the mediators that it sufficed that, in this case, with respect to Bermuda, we would be able to get expeditious feedbacks to our demands and additionally give such actions to Bermuda's requests, particularly because we have a method currently developed that will certainly continue, our company believe, under the treaty of being able to convey those requests through e-mail or with fax.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that due to the fact that they wished to make certain that the demands were clear as well as in a more official way. In the negotiations, it also ended up being clear that they approved that such demand might be made by fax or by email. The real problem they were worried concerning was not discovering a rapid methods to make a request, but really just taking dental requests off the table.

We're positive that we've got the ways in place that we can make immediate demands of them in a method that will certainly be effective. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, as a matter of fact, while it is a benefit to be able to make dental demands, in technique, it's extremely unusual that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My major worry is just, in immediate matters, that it's not postponed. As well as with modern interaction, it appears to me that can most likely be handled. I'm extra worried regarding bank records. Mr. Johnson, do have any talk about the bank records concern? Mr. Johnson. Again, not especially on the financial institution concern.

The difference between having the ability to do an oral request or having the ability to utilize one of these other very quick means, we think, is not consequential. Senator Cardin. There have actually been some issues increased concerning the adequacy of Bermuda legislation with regard to forfeits of proceeds and also instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Lawful Help Treaty in Short article 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide assistance to the United States in process connecting to loss of proceeds and agencies of criminal offense, to the extent permitted by the law of Bermuda.

We have actually had two instances of successful demands for restraint as well as loss of possessions. Both instances were a success and we had the ability to get the funds. As a general issue, support is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do think that's important to stress and anxiety, when it come to cold, seizing, and also restraining properties, consisting of for matters relating to terrorism and terrorism funding.

But it needs to be noted that forfeiture support is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's residential law. When it come to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not forfeit a particular agency of nondrug offenses, since that power does not exist locally. Yet again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug infraction instances.

Senator Cardin. Thanks. Allow me simply ask the basic question, and any one of you can react to it. In the Bermuda contract, there's a provision that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can deny participation in resources cases. We understand, I understand that, so I'm not being important of that provision being included in there.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a means in which we are able to work together under this treaty, also in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we believe and also we hope we still would be able to coordinate.

We have that experience with various other nations that have placed similar analyses on the shared lawful help obligations, as well as we've been able to function out plans in a number of cases that permit us to acquire evidence or go over whether the proof is substantial sufficient to go forward with some kind of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I can simply include in that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to work out and also wrap up is because it was vital to us to make sure that there wasn't a specific restriction on help in capital situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. Which means we assume that aids maintain the principle that is very important to us, that such participation must be readily available, irrespective of the kind of instance. And also we think this has actually also borne out with a few other nations, where also with comparable concerns concerning cooperation in resources situations, they have, for example, been able to give aid to the nonpenalty phase of a trial or another event investigation.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to deny cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for capital penalty? Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give aid in situations that are in contrast to public plan or their crucial interests, and also they have told us that they interpret that to enable them, in fatality fine instances, to work out that.

Senator Cardin. I recognize that. I simply desired to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a situation pending here that we needed their help, where, clearly, the district attorneys were seeking the capital punishment, Bermuda could determine not to work together under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I could claim, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would need, given that this would certainly be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be consultations with the United States, before that denial can move forward. And also I believe that's a vital element of the negotiation that Mr.

As opposed to having a specific arrangement, this is among a set of problems under which assistance might be rejected after consultation, and also, to name a few things, that there must be consideration regarding whether support can be offered, subject to such conditions as the asked for nation regards necessary. As well as our experience in that respect has been that we sometimes can discover proper assurances to enable proof to be produced, a minimum of for initial evaluation of the importance of evidence in case on the whole.

And I believe that would certainly be practical for us to have that information in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest work below, considering that this arrangement was formerly approved by this board. As I stated in my opening, we approved it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any substantial modifications in our investment connection with Rwanda given that last November when you offered testament on this treaty? What we have seen since last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can offer you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. As well as, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's expanding friendliness market. I would certainly say that, given this pattern of boosted financial investment, that it is essential that the defenses be afforded for them.

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financiers. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise mentioned the reality that the United States is discovering various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I believe you mentioned another nation. I think we have five present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other nations that the United States has revealed rate of interest in discussing treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the team that I need to ask the inquiry of whether the administration still sustains the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Legislator Cardin.



I believe that completes the questioning. I do value your perseverance with the committee and also thank you extremely much for your statement today.

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As set out listed below, we would certainly such as to supply updated information on reported U.S. financial investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I think that would be helpful for us to have that information in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task below, since this agreement was previously accepted by this board. As I said in my opening, we authorized it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any kind of significant modifications in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? What we have actually seen given that last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can give you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And also, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the country's expanding hospitality sector. So I would state that, given this pattern of boosted investment, that it is vital that the protections be managed for them.

capitalists. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You also discussed the truth that the United States is exploring other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you pointed out one other country. I think we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has shown passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the team that I need to ask the concern of whether the administration still sustains the Senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I think that finishes the examining. I do appreciate your persistence with the board and thank you really much for your statement today.

As set out listed below, we would like to offer upgraded details on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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